In the 20 years, the 2 decades from 1980 to the year 2000, the energy efficiency here in China actually doubled. And, according to the current policies and programs, the energy intensity is going to further cut by 20 percent, which means the carbon emission is going to be 3 times -- based on that program -- it’s going to be 3 times as much as the entire EU commitment under the Kyoto Protocol.
从1980年到2000年20年间，中国的能源效率增加了一倍。根据“十一五”规划，在2010年中国要比2005年单位GDP能耗减少20%，而相应的二氧化碳减排量将是欧盟在《京都议定书》下所做减排承诺的3倍。
My question is, is this the kind of effort that can build the base for bilateral -- maybe a multi-lateral -- cooperation, looking into the future, say Copenhagen agreement?
展望未来，这种努力会不会成为一个双边合作、或者延续多边合作的共同基础？
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, that’s what we’re going to explore together. One of the challenges is the way that the emissions are calculated, because, as you point out, certainly there has been efficiency achievements here in China, as there has been in the United States. But we are still emitting too much.
希拉里·克林顿：没错，这就是我们要共同探讨的问题。如您所指出的，我们面临的挑战之一就是如何去计算这些排放量。和美国一样，中国在提高能源使用效率上取得了一些成就，不过我们的温室气体排放量还是太高。
And, as China continues to develop -- one of your ministers said to me yesterday that more and more Chinese people want more and more appliances, as you should. I mean, you should have a rising standard of living. It is not anything that the United States or any other country should, in any way, criticize. I mean, the people in China deserve to have a rising standard of living. We just don’t want you to make the same mistakes we made.
但正如昨天有一位部长和我谈到的，随着中国经济的发展，越来越多的中国人希望能使用更多的家用电器，也应该这样。美国和任何其他国家都不应以任何方式对此提出批评。中国人民的生活水平应该不断的提高，我只是希望你们（中国）不要重蹈我们（在能源和气候领域上）的覆辙。
So that, instead of just building more coal-fired power plants, which may be slightly more efficient but still large emitters, how do we work together so that you get your energy needs met without putting more absolute greenhouse gas emission totals into the air?
我们不应再去建造更多烧煤的发电厂，他们的碳排放量还是很大的。我们应该考虑怎样共同努力，既满足能源方面的需要，又不要使温室气体的绝对排放数量继续增加。
So, we are going to explore that. But I was very pleased at the openness that was exhibited yesterday. You know, nobody has all the answers. We have to work together in ways that can discover new answers that will be effective in dealing with this global threat.
所以我们将共同探讨解决的方法，我很高兴看到昨天那样的开放性讨论，因为没有任何人知道所有的答案，我们应共同努力去寻找新的解决方法，来应对这一全球的共同威胁。
PROFESSOR QI: Right. You made this same statement yesterday -- which I very much agree on -- when speaking to the students and scholars at Tsinghua University. You said, you know, "China and U.S. should work together to avoid the kind of mistakes that the U.S. made in the past."
中国日报网 齐晔：您昨天在和清华大学的学者和学生交流时也说了这句话，我非常同意您的看法。 您说美中两国应该共同努力，来避免美国过去所犯的那种错误。
I wonder if you could name some of those mistakes, and how we’re going to work together to avoid that.
您能不能再说一下，过去的那些错误指的是什么，我们应该怎样通过共同努力来避免错误再发生？
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, I will give you one example. Back in the early 1970s, when the price of oil shot up, and the cost of gasoline shot up, individuals and governments under President Carter -- and President Ford before him -- tried to impose conservation measures, and tried to encourage the development of higher gas mileage cars, and more energy efficiency.
希拉里·克林顿：我举一个例子，在70年代的时候，当石油价格开始猛升，汽油价格也跟着上升，卡特总统，包括之前的福特总统，他们努力实施节能措施，鼓励发展比较省油的车。
In the early 1980s, the price of gasoline went down. So everybody in America said, "Oh, well, we don’t have to worry about that any more, and we don’t have to have gas-efficient cars, we can continue to have very inefficient cars." And it was a mistake. It set us back.
可是80年代初，汽油的价格就降下来了，这时候美国人说：“好了，我们不要再去在意油价，我们不是非得开省油的车，可以继续开油耗高的车”。可是这是一个错误，一下倒退了回去。
Now, if you compare what our entire country did with what one state did -- California kept pushing energy conservation. California tried to push higher gas mileage cars. And, today, California still has a lower-per-capita use of electricity because of efficiency measures than the rest of the United States.
和全国的情况不同，加利福尼亚州一直推行节约能源，一直要求推广油耗低的汽车，如今加利福尼亚的人均耗电量还是比美国其他地方低，就是因为他们坚持采用节能措施。
So, we made a mistake. People thought, "Oh, we don’t have to worry about it any more." We know we have to worry and we are trying to be good partners, and coordinate with other countries, including making our own changes.
美国犯过这个错误，原本以为不用再在意油耗，但是现在知道不管油价如何，节约能源是首位。美国要做“好的合作伙伴”，美国和其他的国家合作，自己也要做出改变。
PROFESSOR QI: Right, right. Well, that’s a great point. Moving into the next phase, Copenhagen. IPCC, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, proposed 25 to 40 percent of cuts in greenhouse gas emissions for the developed countries in order to avoid a dangerous deterioration of the climate. Do you think that’s possible for the U.S. - that 25 to 40 percent cut by the year 2020?
中国日报网 齐晔：联合国政府间气候变化委员会（IPCC）提出，到2020年，发达国家要在1990年基础上将温室气体排放量削减25%到40%，以避免气候进一步恶化。您认为2020年美国能达到这个要求吗？
SECRETARY CLINTON: I think that a great deal is possible. Very much of it is technically possible. Our challenge now is to make it politically and personally possible. And that is what President Obama is committed to doing, is, with our stimulus money, which was a very significant down payment on modernizing our electric grid, on incentivizing changes in building construction and design, and retrofitting federal buildings.
希拉里·克林顿：我认为还是有这个可能的，技术上来讲是可以实现的。现在我们面临的挑战就是如何在政治上和日常生活中实现这个目标，这也是奥巴马总统一直努力的方向。我们用于经济刺激计划的投资，很大一部分用来建设现代化的电网、用于鼓励对建筑及其设计做出改造、用于翻新联邦政府的办公楼，以使其能效更高。
The science and technology is possible for us to be much more energy efficient. In fact, concentrating on energy efficiency more than renewable energies is a very obvious way of trying to move toward our targets. We just have to convince enough of our fellow citizens to agree with us.
节能在理论上和技术上已经成熟。我们强调提高能效，还有使用可再生能源，很明显这样我们就能达到目标。但同时我们必须说服每个公民都要做到节约能源。
You started by asking what my family does. Well, we have tried to change our mental attitude - turning off appliances, turning off lights. My late father grew up with the belief that you didn’t waste things like electricity. So, we would turn off the furnace at night. We would turn off all the lights when we left a room.
你刚才问到我自己的家庭怎么做的，我们是先从改变观念做起，我们会关掉不用的电器，关上灯，我已故的父亲一直有一个信念，不应该浪费电以及其他能源，所以晚上锅炉要关掉，离开房间所有的灯要关掉。
And then, I confess, we got a little bit less aware. And I think most Americans did. So we weren’t paying attention. We had so many utensils, appliances plugged into the walls and draining electricity all the time, and we would walk out of a room with all the lights on, and our big buildings would be lit all night long, and we wasted a lot of energy and we wasted a lot of money. We can’t do that.
但是我得承认，后来我们变得不是那么在意，我想大部分美国人也是这样不太注意这些事。插座一直通着电、离开房间也不关灯、办公楼的灯整夜的开，我们浪费了很多能源和钱。
And so, being more efficient will take us a long way toward what we need to achieve. But it is also clear that it is not only the developed countries, it is economies like China and India that have to become full partners. How you do it, given your challenges, is something we want to work on, because we will have different approaches. And Kyoto recognized that. Different approaches to common objectives is how we have to consider the Copenhagen treaty.
在节约能源这方面，我们还有很多要改进的地方，此外不仅是发达国家，还有像中国和印度这些经济体，都需要有所作为，要实事求是因地制宜，不同的国家做法也不尽相同。这种不同在《京都议定书》里就有所体现，在哥本哈根协议中也会考虑到这点。
PROFESSOR QI: Great. And it is great to see such a great level of optimism. And thank you so much for being with us.
中国日报网 齐晔：我完全同意，非常高兴看到您对此这么乐观，感谢您作客《环球对话》，和我们的网友交流，谢谢。
SECRETARY CLINTON: Thank you. It’s a pleasure.
希拉里·克林顿：谢谢，非常荣幸。
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